Luca De Biase & Andreas Scheleicher
15 April 2024
Andreas Schleicher, Director for education and skills, Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development in Paris
The PISA programme to assess the performance of education systems worldwide is now a recognised benchmark for teachers, families and, above all, governments that are genuinely interested in improving the quality of the educational experience for young people. The OECD was able to achieve great success from the statistical and interpretative work set up by Andreas Schleicher, a mathematician and educational systems scholar, who constructed indicators and survey systems dedicated to competence in reading and mathematics as well as knowledge of science.
Previously, economists and researchers investigating society assessed the contribution of education simply by taking years of study into account. With PISA they have real-time information on the skills of young people worldwide, based on direct examinations of thousands of 15-year-olds in each country. This allowed the evaluation of different education policies, educational strategies and approaches, and the value of education investments.
After more than 20 years of surveys, the results are particularly important for assessing the countries that lag far behind in the quality of their education systems, those that perform excellently and those that perform average. And they show an overall deterioration in learning outcomes since the years around 2012.
Studies to understand the reasons for this phenomenon are ongoing. Some argue that this is related to the spread of digital socialisation systems that compete with the attention devoted to books and study. The issue is of course open, but the problem cannot be tackled without trying to broaden the scope of the investigation to consider the entirety of children’s educational experiences and the quality of their lives. Therefore, Andreas Schleicher, together with his team, is studying strategies that can go in the direction of expanding the knowledge that the OECD can provide to scholars in this very strategic field.
The PISA programme to assess the performance of education systems worldwide is now a recognised benchmark for teachers, families and, above all, governments that are genuinely interested in improving the quality of the educational experience for young people. The OECD was able to achieve great success from the statistical and interpretative work set up by Andreas Schleicher, a mathematician and educational systems scholar, who constructed indicators and survey systems dedicated to competence in reading and mathematics as well as knowledge of science.
Previously, economists and researchers investigating society assessed the contribution of education simply by taking years of study into account. With PISA they have real-time information on the skills of young people worldwide, based on direct examinations of thousands of 15-year-olds in each country. This allowed the evaluation of different education policies, educational strategies and approaches, and the value of education investments.
After more than 20 years of surveys, the results are particularly important for assessing the countries that lag far behind in the quality of their education systems, those that perform excellently and those that perform average. And they show an overall deterioration in learning outcomes since the years around 2012.
Studies to understand the reasons for this phenomenon are ongoing. Some argue that this is related to the spread of digital socialisation systems that compete with the attention devoted to books and study. The issue is of course open, but the problem cannot be tackled without trying to broaden the scope of the investigation to consider the entirety of children’s educational experiences and the quality of their lives. Therefore, Andreas Schleicher, together with his team, is studying strategies that can go in the direction of expanding the knowledge that the OECD can provide to scholars in this very strategic field.
Luca De Biase
In the last report, you explained how PISA is now also considering wellness at school to assess the performance of students and education systems. Why?
In the last report, you explained how PISA is now also considering wellness at school to assess the performance of students and education systems. Why?
Andreas Scheleicher
If one tries to imagine what makes students capable of living successfully in today’s world, what makes them capable of being independent and autonomous, what makes it easier for them to coexist with people from different cultures, what enables them to understand how to respect the environment, one soon comes to realise that the answers do not only come from cognitive skills. Social and emotional skills are also very important. Therefore, for some years now we have been working on making those dimensions visible: if they are not visible, they cannot be improved either.
If one tries to imagine what makes students capable of living successfully in today’s world, what makes them capable of being independent and autonomous, what makes it easier for them to coexist with people from different cultures, what enables them to understand how to respect the environment, one soon comes to realise that the answers do not only come from cognitive skills. Social and emotional skills are also very important. Therefore, for some years now we have been working on making those dimensions visible: if they are not visible, they cannot be improved either.
Luca De Biase
How did you set up this research?
How did you set up this research?
Andreas Scheleicher
The idea is that wellness is not just an individual matter. It is a collective dimension. Like uman agency: the ability to mobilise cognitive, social, emotional resources to make things happen, intervening in reality. It is not only an individual character but occurs by developing the ability to exercise co-agentivity, to work with others who may be different, developing a collective agentivity, which requires understanding that the whole is greater than the parts.
The idea is that wellness is not just an individual matter. It is a collective dimension. Like uman agency: the ability to mobilise cognitive, social, emotional resources to make things happen, intervening in reality. It is not only an individual character but occurs by developing the ability to exercise co-agentivity, to work with others who may be different, developing a collective agentivity, which requires understanding that the whole is greater than the parts.
Luca De Biase
Your report states that for the first time PISA has gathered all the data in a single area, the Happy Life Dashboard, which considers indicators of students’ quality of life: not only academic achievement, but also autonomy, engagement, material and cultural well-being, openness to diversity, psychological well-being, resilience, quality of social relationships, and balance between study and the rest of life. What are the results?
Your report states that for the first time PISA has gathered all the data in a single area, the Happy Life Dashboard, which considers indicators of students’ quality of life: not only academic achievement, but also autonomy, engagement, material and cultural well-being, openness to diversity, psychological well-being, resilience, quality of social relationships, and balance between study and the rest of life. What are the results?
Andreas Scheleicher
The results are varied. On the one hand, in some of the best-performing places in mathematics, such as Singapore, Macao, Taipei, students also show poor results in extracurricular activities such as sports, and are quite worried, because they fear they will fail. On the other hand, countries where students show worse results in mathematics and reading, such as Spain and Peru, are also characterised by young people who are less anxious and more interested in sports. However it’s not just these more evident trade-offs. Most countries exhibit complex conditions that can be of significant interest to policymakers.
The results are varied. On the one hand, in some of the best-performing places in mathematics, such as Singapore, Macao, Taipei, students also show poor results in extracurricular activities such as sports, and are quite worried, because they fear they will fail. On the other hand, countries where students show worse results in mathematics and reading, such as Spain and Peru, are also characterised by young people who are less anxious and more interested in sports. However it’s not just these more evident trade-offs. Most countries exhibit complex conditions that can be of significant interest to policymakers.
Luca De Biase
Perhaps you expect that by putting these indicators together, the OECD can help decision-makers look at the dynamics of welfare growth with a broader gaze…
Perhaps you expect that by putting these indicators together, the OECD can help decision-makers look at the dynamics of welfare growth with a broader gaze…
Andreas Scheleicher
Yet there is a need for it. For example, if you talk to companies these days, you find that they do not only want specialists when looking for people to hire. Above all, they need people who know how to take responsibility for what they do and work as a team, who know how to cultivate their own motivation and not just wait for instructions. After all, the knowledge economy requires both specialisation and interdisciplinarity.
Yet there is a need for it. For example, if you talk to companies these days, you find that they do not only want specialists when looking for people to hire. Above all, they need people who know how to take responsibility for what they do and work as a team, who know how to cultivate their own motivation and not just wait for instructions. After all, the knowledge economy requires both specialisation and interdisciplinarity.
Luca De Biase
So it takes collaboration, teamwork, strategic vision…. And all that is both in the mind but also in the body. Can we say, then, that physical activity and exercise are destined to become increasingly important in shaping individuals suited to contemporary life?
So it takes collaboration, teamwork, strategic vision…. And all that is both in the mind but also in the body. Can we say, then, that physical activity and exercise are destined to become increasingly important in shaping individuals suited to contemporary life?
Andreas Scheleicher
Well, after all, it is all in the mind. The ability to ride a bicycle is in the mind. But this ability is learnt through physical experience. And this applies not only to cycling, but to many other skills as well. In young children it is particularly evident, but it is absolutely important for everyone: one learns faster and more deeply if the hands and body are involved. It is something that people often forget. But wellness is often the integration of cognitive and physical dimensions.
Well, after all, it is all in the mind. The ability to ride a bicycle is in the mind. But this ability is learnt through physical experience. And this applies not only to cycling, but to many other skills as well. In young children it is particularly evident, but it is absolutely important for everyone: one learns faster and more deeply if the hands and body are involved. It is something that people often forget. But wellness is often the integration of cognitive and physical dimensions.
Luca De Biase
What is the role of digital in all that?
What is the role of digital in all that?
Andreas Scheleicher
We should fear artificial intelligence if it makes us more like computers. If it increases cognitive activity and reduces physical activity, if we leave too many skills to the computer and reduce our ability to relate physically to the world, we certainly lose the ability to be in the world, we have less emotional balance, and we have a less holistic view of ourselves. Technology is actually a great amplifier: it enhances both good and not-so-good ideas. We must learn to use those technologies better. We need to design better education systems, also innovating in the use of technology.
We should fear artificial intelligence if it makes us more like computers. If it increases cognitive activity and reduces physical activity, if we leave too many skills to the computer and reduce our ability to relate physically to the world, we certainly lose the ability to be in the world, we have less emotional balance, and we have a less holistic view of ourselves. Technology is actually a great amplifier: it enhances both good and not-so-good ideas. We must learn to use those technologies better. We need to design better education systems, also innovating in the use of technology.
Luca De Biase
Are there places in the world where the balance between cognitive and physical experiences in education is pursued best?
Are there places in the world where the balance between cognitive and physical experiences in education is pursued best?
Andreas Scheleicher
Estonia and Switzerland show educational systems that succeed in both cognitive skills and sport. Their advantage apparently lies in their ability to properly define the time students spend on learning and the time they dedicate to other activities.
Estonia and Switzerland show educational systems that succeed in both cognitive skills and sport. Their advantage apparently lies in their ability to properly define the time students spend on learning and the time they dedicate to other activities.
Luca De Biase
Such as sport…
Such as sport…
Andreas Scheleicher
Sport is not just about becoming more athletic. It is a great opportunity to take responsibility for yourself, for your body, for other people. To develop courage, leadership, empathy. I believe that we have to think about learning in a much broader way than we have done so far. Certainly, there is no evidence that being deeply into math makes you worse at sports. Actually, it is quite clear that it is possible to build educational systems that foster a balanced growth of people. Thinking about wellness makes it possible to nurture this kind of broader, more articulate and more human purpose.
Sport is not just about becoming more athletic. It is a great opportunity to take responsibility for yourself, for your body, for other people. To develop courage, leadership, empathy. I believe that we have to think about learning in a much broader way than we have done so far. Certainly, there is no evidence that being deeply into math makes you worse at sports. Actually, it is quite clear that it is possible to build educational systems that foster a balanced growth of people. Thinking about wellness makes it possible to nurture this kind of broader, more articulate and more human purpose.
